Onwards!

[nendil]

Geez, FF8 is so complimacated with all this junction schtuff. (Don't even talk to me about the latter FFs. XP)

Anyways, I've got some questions/ponderings here regarding the ever-lasting fic. If you can answer, or even just have any thoughts on, any of these thingies I'm wondering about, there will be much gratitude for you.


What material would a Kokiri tunic be made of? What kind of fabric (since it ain't leaves) would these forest-dwelling children have access to? Cotton doesn't seem likely because they don't appear to be a farming community. Wool doesn't seem likely because they don't appear to be taming/raising any animals, and we've yet to see any forest creature that'd have the suitable pelt anyway. Leather doesn't seem likely because they don't appear to be inclined to (or even capable of?) killing so many animals for clothing, and also the material just doesn't look like it. I think it being woven from a plant fiber is most likely, and if that's the case, is it plausible to have a cloth that thin and soft, yet still woven by hand? o_o Should I just chalk it up to "UNKNOWN MAGICAL FICTIONAL SUBSTANCE"?

(I'm talking about young Link's childhood clothing, by the way, not grown-up Link's gear which could plausibly have come from anywhere. If you want to check the look of the material, try some SSBM screencaps for reference.)

Also, for whatever material you answered me with, how would it act if you swam in it? Wool gets heavy when soaked, for instance.



This is probably relatively common knowledge for adventurers, but if you take shelter in a cave and light a fire, how do you set it up so the smoke doesn't fill the cave? Especially if you're burning stuff that's already wet from rain? I can probably get the answer to this if I read Clan of the Cave Bear more closely, but their descriptions just went over my head.

Bonus: If anyone wants to come up with a name and/or structure/appearance for a fragrant white flower that can be easily pressed in a book and symbolizes a promise, you get extra points and I may reward you with art if I use/get inspired by it.



If Zelda decided at a young age that she should study Sheikah skills, but never needs to use them in a big important plot-affecting way, would that be a cop out or otherwise pointless for the story? After all, I've taken up quite a few skills (ice skating, taiko, etc.) that won't have much effect on my life...

(Keep in mind that this is a long, gentle story about growing up. It's not uneventful, but no epic battles or murder mysteries or anything.)



Finally, since I am quite musically un-educated, please provide me with terms for musical pieces/movements/parts/whatever, like prelude, refrain, interlude, etc. Terms that indicate a specific "time period" (i.e. prelude = "come before") are best, but others are welcome too. In case I have to split the gin-ormous story up into smaller parts, I'll need additional titles. ^^;;

Comments

[lisa-s.livejournal.com]

beverlyfaerie would probably be able to give you great answers to the textiles and music questions. I can send her your way, if you like.

Now that I think about it, it would be fun to work on a meta level and have a story reflect the structure of a traditional classical symphony (or sonata--oooh, make it a symphony if it's an ensemble piece with several POV characters and a sonata if it's a piece with one POV character). Four or three parts (movements), each echoing the tone of a traditional classical symphony or sonata--that would be kinda cool. And before I go any further, let me make the following disclaimer: any musical theory I ever had was rudimentary at best, and I wasn't paying much attention at the time anyway, so I may very well be talking out of my ass (I can hear the musically-educated amongst you laughing as I type this).

Okay, that was me being random and too in love with meta games.

But to answer your question, here is a pretty comprehensive glossary of musical terms you can reference. Depending on how many parts your story breaks down into, I'd suggest structure the fic along the lines of Prelude-[whatever you want the movement to be--scherzo, minuet, serenade, or whatever best describes the narrative tone of the part]-Interlude/Intermezzo-[same as Part 2]-Finale. That's how I'd try to structure a fic if I wanted to go the whole musical structure route. I'm sure you can get better advice from the better-educated, though! ;-)

And finally: If Zelda decided at a young age that she should study Sheikah skills, but never needs to use them in a big important plot-affecting way, would that be a cop out or otherwise pointless for the story?

No, I don't think so. If you spent pages and pages going into minute detail about the training then never used the training later in the story, then it would seem a bit pointless ("I read all that...why?"), but simply having the character spend some of her time doing something she finds interesting isn't pointless. And, simply because it doesn't advance the plot doesn't mean it serves no purpose--there's a lot of character development potential there. What does Zelda's interest in learning Sheikah skills tell us about her? Why does she stick with it when the going gets tough? And so forth.

Besides, as you pointed out yourself, real people do all sorts of things that don't have any real affect on their career trajectories. I played the oboe in high school, and that didn't affect my academic or professional careers. It does mean I can spew off half-formed thoughts about music theory in someone's LJ, so it wasn't pointless. It just didn't lead to any major life changes. It's more realistic to have a character be interested or involved in things that don't lead to plot revelation after plot revelation than it is to have everything the character does have a major impact on the story. Because, really, what are the odds that everything we do in our lives will result in major events?

I hope at least a little bit of the above makes sense. I'm running on a bunch of muscle relaxants and very little food, so I'm feeling a bit loopy at the moment.

[nendil.livejournal.com]

I can send her your way, if you like.

That would be peachy. Thankee.

it would be fun to work on a meta level and have a story reflect the structure of a traditional classical symphony...

Yeah, that's definitely something like I would do, save for the fact that I know jack about music theory and that I have next to no writing drive. But yeah, I've a huge thing for themed stuff like that. =P

But to answer your question, here is a pretty comprehensive glossary of musical terms you can reference.

Jinkies! I could've Googled up a number of musical dictionaries, but I was hoping for a shortcut. Oh well, that site's pretty nice to browse. And yeah, the prelude/interim/finale structure is pretty obvious, though the structure of my storyline won't be *quite* straightforward like that.

It's more realistic to have a character be interested or involved in things that don't lead to plot revelation after plot revelation than it is to have everything the character does have a major impact on the story.

Absolutely. I was just wondering in terms of a literary/story-telling viewpoint, whether it will seem to be a loose end. It does come in handy in relatively mundane ways, just (so far as planned) it's not as necessary as she initially thought it might be. Keep it a balance, the consesus seems to be.

Tada!

[awakesoon.livejournal.com]

What material would a Kokiri tunic be made of?

What you're looking for is LINEN! The supreme goddess of all fabrics (and very fashionable this year ^.~). Linen is made from flax, which could potentially be grown in most areas... I don't know so much about the plant itself, but that info should be easy to find.

Linen has been used for thousands of years, and is currently a popular period fabric for re-creationists (like myself). Linen can be spun and woven very light -or- very heavy, so you have options. As a natural fabric, it stays cool, takes dye extremely well, and in layers will keep one very warm, even when wet. Linen is also useful as a towel because it will absorb water quickly without getting heavy, and then will dry almost as quickly (I carry just one small linen towel in my camp gear because of this).

I agree with you on the cotton point... While it was a period fabric (the Egyptians had been using it for thousands of years), it was rare and expensive with current technology. Cotton didn't become common until the cotton gin was invented, this making the fibers more efficient to deal with.

Silk could also be an option... But it doesn't deal quite as well with water (though contrary to common knowledge, it is washable, and is one of the sturdier fibers). Silk comes from the cocoons of *cough* silkworms, so that could potentially work for you, too. It carries the same properties of all natural fabrics: cool in hot weather, warm in layers, takes dye great. It tends to get a little heavier in water than linen, but not as much as wool.

Check google for lots of info on spinning and weaving techniques, if you care to go that far with it. ^^ Period medieval re-creationists tend to document like crazy.

As for the music thing... Lisa's link was perfect. Mmmm, intermezzo...

Re: Tada!

[ctrl-a.livejournal.com]

LOL. I just had this picture of the Kokiri raising silkworms the way Chinese school kids do. XD

But they're all squishy and crawly and stuff. And then the moths are all weird and flappy. *shudder* Raising them once was enough for me.

But linen is cool. Even I've seen it around, and I hardly ever go clothes shopping.

Re: Tada!

[nendil.livejournal.com]

Gee, I thought I was the one who was squeamish about worms and wriggly things. And *I* like silkworms, they're all cool and smooth in your hand. =)

The moths aren't nearly as nifty, that I'll concur, though as long as they're properly contained they don't bother me. Though most of what I remember is them having sex for like forever after hatching. And then laying eggs all over the place. XP

Re: Tada!

[ctrl-a.livejournal.com]

You are the one who is squeamish about worms and wriggly things. Crawly things are a bit worse for me than, say, earthworms, though. But yeah, I didn't really enjoy raising silkworms. When they were smaller, I was always afraid of squishing them when I changed leaves. And then when they were big, they were too squishy to hold and just clung so hard to the leaves. I didn't think they were very smooth.

Also, they're just dirty. So much poop to dump out. Last summer, the guy I carpooled with had silkworms at his house. Supposedly they were his sisters, but mainly it was his parents taking care of them. And when I arrived particularly early, sometimes I'd end up helping clean leaves and stuff. But I just always remember how there were boxes all over their dining room table, and sometimes the worms would even climb out and fall on the floor. I couldn't imagine what it'd be like to accidentally step on one. *shudder*

But while I'll tolerate crawly things, I can't stand flappy moth things. (Maybe if they're really tiny, of the kind that my house and even my dorm room was once infested with, that I just kill.) But yeah, they do have sex forever. I think some of them even died in that position. c.c

Thanks!

[nendil.livejournal.com]

What dreadite suggested to me was hemp cloth, except, of course, with a different plant fiber (probably something Deku =P). From what I looked up, it seems similar to linen, except maybe a bit more "natural"/"primitive"? After all, these are little kid-sized... people, and I don't seem them having looms and such around. I didn't know about it behaving that nicely in water, though; that makes it extra-handy =)

I did consider silk briefly, but I seriously can't see them being able to extract the threads and then weaving them by hand, or even using any level of technology believable for Kokiri means. Unless the fabric-making process is easier than I thought...?

(All this for what amounts to, pretty much, one throwaway line... How anal am I? ^^;;;)

Re: Thanks!

[awakesoon.livejournal.com]

You know, I don't see why there can't be a "Deku fiber" that would act all the ways you'd like it to... That actually sounds damn fine to me.

I wish I knew more about weaving, but from what little I do know... It's not as complicated a process as it seems like, and certainly modern machinery has made it substantially more complicated. As far as I understand, smaller medieval looms were really only about 18 inches wide, easy enough for one person to run (even a small person... medeival folk were, on the whole, smaller than average size today). Larger ones run by a few people were also in use.

But I seriously, even as a costumer, can't fault a 'magical cloth' option... Considering the kind of creatures they are, stuff like that seems like it would almost be provided for them... But certainly, their intelligence, stamina, and size wouldn't prevent them from harvesting raw materials, spinning threads, weaving cloth, and tailoring clothes. So, in short, either way. ^^

I can't wait to read what this is working into!

Re: Thanks!

[nendil.livejournal.com]

I'm not actually especially interested in inventing a "magical fiber/cloth", since I don't need the clothing to be that particularly special or anything. Basically what I mainly wanted to know was whether it was feasible that these little people, with a seemingly casual/largely recreational society, would have the means to create the appropriate kind of fabric out of materials at hand. That is to say, forest stuff. Looks like that answer's been resolved aplenty =)

Considering the kind of creatures they are, stuff like that seems like it would almost be provided for them...

I would think that they're born/created with them too, especially seeing as how in Wind Waker it was revealed that they were just forest spirits that took on the forms of children. But then where did they get the clothes for Link? And (as pertaining to the fic) where would he obtain additional sets, if he needed?

Heh, I went through this with the first fic too. Puzzled for a long time over what people used before towels as we knew it were invented. Finally recieved the ideal answer of "linens", and I ended up using the word exactly once out of the exactly two times the stuff was mentioned. ::thumbs up::